A conversation with Masao Tagai

This time, we visited Masao Tagai's Sanyonegama kiln and had a chance to talk.
[Tagai] → Mr. Masao Tagai [Nishimura] → Mr. Ichimai Nishimura, Owner of Amagimichi

[Nishimura] Please tell us how you got started in pottery.

[Tagai] After graduating from university, I worked as an office worker for a general company for about three and a half years. During that time, I had no opportunity to come into contact with pottery at all, and I had never even tried kneading clay as a hobby. However, when I was 28 years old, on my way to work by car, I happened to notice a notice that said "Ceramics class staff wanted," and this was a major turning point for me.

[Nishimura] You were jumping into a completely different field. What attracted you to this recruitment?

[Tagai] To be honest, the biggest reason was my intuition that it would be interesting. The job was for a school supplies company, and the staff would deliver clay works to be used in art classes after firing them in a kiln. They didn't require any pottery skills, so I was basically a "transporter + firer." Still, I was interested in the feel of the clay and the flames of the kiln, so I started working there.

[Nishimura] So at first you had no connection with celadon.

[Tagai] Yes, I didn't even know the word "glaze", let alone celadon. About six months after I joined the company, the president's wife suggested that I should at least learn to turn a potter's wheel, and that's when I really started. While I was cleaning and watching the students in the class turning potter's wheels, I felt a strong desire to try it myself. However, the first teacup I turned was full of distortions - I asked myself, "Is this really fun?" and so I began my days of struggling with clay.

[Nishimura] You took on this challenge at the age of 28, after having worked in the workforce. Since it wasn't an early start, I heard that you were conscious of the open exhibition.

[Tagai] That's right. I didn't graduate from an art school, so I thought the only way to receive objective evaluation was to enter an open exhibition. If I was going to enter an exhibition, I wanted it to stand out, so I took on the challenge of creating a large piece. While working at a company, I stayed in the studio at night to create my work, and on my days off, I would go to art museums to observe masterpieces from all over the world, past and present, and then try to reproduce in my own way the shapes I had just seen. I repeated this process over and over again. Of course, things didn't go as planned, and even when I tried to make a set of five pieces, the dimensions didn't fit, so I spent my days practicing.

[Nishimura] You continued that effort for 17 years. Was there a time when you hesitated about going independent?

[Tagai] After about five years at the company, I started to waver on whether to stay with the company or go independent, and by my tenth year, it was time to make a serious decision. At the time, I had just gotten married, and I was afraid to take the plunge and go independent without a clear outlook for my life. My wife encouraged me, saying, "If you're going to make a decision, it's better to make it sooner," but I was worried about whether I could make a living by opening a pottery class, and whether I would be able to sell my works, which I had never exhibited before. In the end, I decided, "I'd rather regret doing it than regret not doing it," and I went independent about ten years ago.

[Nishimura] At that time, you weren't yet firing celadon, but rather works made from red clay and iron glaze.

[Tagai] Yes. While I was studying classical techniques, an artist I knew taught me a recipe for a tortoiseshell crackle glaze, and when I tried making 7-inch and 8-inch plates, I was lucky enough to sell them. This successful experience led me to think, "I'd like to try making celadon someday." However, the world of celadon is deep and is, so to speak, the "royal road to porcelain." The greater the risk, the greater the beauty that can be achieved.

[Nishimura] What exactly are the “challenges”?

[Tagai] First of all, the thickness of the glaze applied is very carefully controlled. With regular glazes, it is enough to dip the piece in once, but with celadon, the glaze is applied multiple times, ultimately ensuring a glaze thickness of over 3 mm. Without this thickness, the unique blue color will not come out. If too much is applied, it will run and ruin the piece. The base is turned as thin as possible, and after drying, it is scraped down with a plane, pushing the limits of strength.

[Nishimura] I've heard that yields have now stabilized.

[Tagai] When it comes to masterpieces, if you can get one or two points out of ten, that's a great achievement.

[Nishimura] This three-legged sake cup is also very original. Celadon with legs is quite rare.

[Tagai] Thank you. The important thing about celadon is its presence and dignity. I will respect that and face nature every day, enjoying and suffering, so that I can create beauty that will be called Tagai celadon.

[Nishimura] It seems he also has ideals for cracking.

[Tagai] Yes. I like vertical crazing. Crazing continues to appear even after firing due to water absorption and expansion, so it is fun to develop the pottery and is also an element of the "scenery" that Japanese people like.

[Nishimura] What kind of celadon statues do you plan to create in the future?

[Tagai] There are many celadon artists both in Japan and abroad. Among them, I want to establish a unique style that will be recognizable as "Tagai celadon at a glance." I will challenge myself in both color and shape. I think it is necessary to try to break away from traditional "dignity" for a moment. A solo exhibition is a place for free presentation, whereas if you "overdo it" at a public exhibition, you will be rejected. That's another reason to enjoy creating while thinking.

[Nishimura] You can really feel the passion that celadon is the best.

[Tagai] To tell you the truth, when I first started making celadon, I didn't even know the background of it, such as "Celadon is a noble pottery loved by the emperor." Even when I saw the masterpieces of Mineo Okabe, I couldn't understand its value at the time. But now I am fascinated by the depth of the glaze, and before I knew it, I was absorbed in celadon. An endless quest - that's what celadon is to me.

[Nishimura] I really understand your passion for pottery. Thank you for giving us your valuable time today and for sharing your stories with us.