A conversation with Shigeo and Yotaro Takemura

This time, we had the opportunity to speak with Takemura Shigeo, his father, and his son, Takemura Yotaro, at Dainichigama in Yamashina, Kyoto.
[Shigeo Takemura] → Shigeo Takemura
[Yotaro Takemura] → Yotaro Takemura
[Nishimura] → Nishimura Ichimai (Owner of Amakido)

[Nishimura] When I look at your work, I see that it is colorful and I have never seen another artist who looks similar to yours. How did you train, Mr. Takemura?

[Takemura Tsuneo] I am an apprentice, although it has become less common recently.

[Nishimura] Is that a live-in position?

[Takemura Tsuneo] No, I attended classes regularly. I attended classes for eight years from the age of 18. I learned a lot of different methods during those eight years. In our generation, we watched the teacher work and helped him out, so we rarely got to learn from him.

[Nishimura] Does that mean watching from the sidelines and stealing their techniques?

[Takemura Tsuneo] That was 40 years ago. There was no such thing as teaching in those days.

[Nishimura] You've trained for eight years and made pottery such as plates for everyday use, but have you ever entered your work in any public exhibitions?

[Takemura Tsuneo] Yes. I also entered my works in public exhibitions.

[Nishimura] When did you start making the natural glazes made from grapes, loquats, etc. that you make now?

[Takemura Tsuneo] My teacher used to work with ash glazes, so I started doing the same as him. When I tried it, I realized that very few people make their own ash to use as glazes. Most people buy it from the market. I was helping out, but it wasn't until I became independent that I was surprised. At the time, my teacher made a variety of things, including eggplant ash, so I did the same. Ash has a different color depending on the type of wood, so I started wanting to make my own unique glazes.

[Nishimura] I think sunflowers are interesting because they have a beautiful pale yellow color. Loquats turn blue, grapes have plum skin, and tea leaves are interesting too.

[Takemura Tsuneo] However, as you know, even if we burn a truckload of wood and turn it into ash, we only get a small amount. It is a lot of work for us to make 10kg or 20kg of ash for our work. We have to encounter various things and get the ash in a uniform state, otherwise it cannot be used for glaze. This area is a grape-producing region, so we can get a stable amount.

[Nishimura] When cedar is used as a glaze, does it turn a light blue color?

[Takemura Tsuneo] Yes, that's right. It's a light green color. I started growing sunflowers because I thought it would be good if they grew quickly, but when you burn sunflowers that grow in 3-4 months, you don't get much ash. As for tea ash, the major tea companies send us selected leaves that can't be used in products, and we turn them into ash and use them for glazes.

[Nishimura] It's almost like a circular economy. I read about it in the newspaper. It's not recycling, it's upcycling.

[Takemura Tsuneo] In the old days, there was a job called an ash dealer. There were kiln clay pots in the town, and you could pay to collect the ash that was used as fuel. For dyeing, the ash scum is used. These are taken to dye shops and sold. Ash scum water is made, which is used to fix the colour of the dye. Once the scum has been removed from the ash, it is then taken to a pottery shop. The ash that has had the scum removed is then used. This is how it circulates.

[Nishimura] It's good that you can use the ash twice.

[Takemura Tsuneo] When you roast 100 kg of tea leaves, you can only get 4 kg. Even if you send me 1 ton, you can only get 10 kg. Therefore, you can't make ash unless certain conditions are met.

[Nishimura] It's very difficult to create such pale, beautiful colors.

[Takemura Tsuneo] Thanks to the ash, we can now create glazes with a variety of different expressions.

[Nishimura] I feel that your style is similar in some ways, but how do you actually create your work?

[Yotaro Takemura] Originally, I did similar work with other potters, but if I wanted to work as an individual artist, my father was the first to do it. Doing the same thing as my father would be like copying him. So I started pursuing the colors I like. My current work is going in a different direction.

[Nishimura] What kind of work are you doing now?

[Takemura Yotaro] I am currently exploring paints.

[Nishimura] Do you use an electric kettle?

[Yotaro Takemura] Yes, I have tried it with a wood-fired oven, but it is difficult.

[Takemura Tsuneo] Ashyaku cannot be made with approximate temperature control. It requires strict temperature control. Because it is an unstable pottery, it needs to be carefully controlled in an electric kettle and proper temperature control.

[Nishimura] What direction do you want to take in the future?

[Yotaro Takemura] Currently, I basically use chemical pigments to create colors. This is an approach that is not typical of pottery. From now on, I would like to try mixing processes that do not know what will come out of the kiln. This is a job that is on the opposite end of the spectrum from my father's, because his work is unpredictable.

[Nishimura] Do you learn anything from your father?

[Yotaro Takemura] Actually, there is nothing I can ask him. Our styles are different, so there is nothing in particular to say. I thought I understood my father's work as a potter, but I didn't know the details until I became an adult. I didn't consciously try to become interested in it. So, it's not like I consult him when I'm in trouble. We sometimes give each other feedback on the finished product, but we don't talk much about how we make things.

[Nishimura] I see.

[Takemura Tsuneo] If someone asks me which one is better, I can answer.

[Nishimura] It's good that they don't fight. I don't think anyone would realise they are father and son when they see the works at the Japanese Traditional Crafts Exhibition.

[Takemura Tsuneo] There are some good things about doing different jobs. The advantage of submitting to a public exhibition is that the judges can make objective judgments.

[Nishimura] If I enter my work in an open exhibition, will I be able to get advice from senior artists?

[Takemura Tsuneo] If you are selected and ask when you line up at the venue, they will tell you.

[Nishimura] What will they teach you?

[Yotaro Takemura] He doesn't teach me. He only conveys what he wants to know about the finished product based on his own feelings, so when I ask him questions like, "This is what I wanted to do, what do you think?" he answers, "Then I would express it like this." He doesn't give me advice like, "This is good, this is bad."

[Nishimura] It looks like we're on the right path.

[Yotaro Takemura] How you ask is important. Even if you ask, "How is it?", I don't know how to respond.

[Nishimura] I imagine you have a lot of things scheduled, but does being selected in an open exhibition motivate you?

[Yotaro Takemura] I get motivated when I create something good. Also, when I create something that I like. And most of all, when it reaches someone.

[Nishimura] Indeed, pottery is about reaching someone's hands. Thank you for today. As a parent and child, you are working on pottery together and creating your own unique world, so I look forward to seeing your future endeavors. Thank you very much.

 

Dainichigama's pet dog was watching the whole conversation.

 

Shigeo Takemura – Pottery Specialty Store [Amagi-michi]

Yotaro Takemura – Pottery Specialty Store [Amagimichi]