A conversation with Mr. Hideki Yanashita　

[Yanagishita] → Mr. Hideki Yanashita [Nishimura] → Mr. Ichimai Nishimura, Owner of Amagimichi

[Nishimura] When did you come to this place (Iga City, Mie Prefecture)? I would like to ask you what prompted you to move here from Tokyo and what were your thoughts and feelings. I imagine that the environment is completely different from a big city, so I imagine that this change has had an impact on your own work and creative activities.

[Yanagishita] I came here 28 years ago.

[Nishimura] That's a long story. Did the direction become clear from there?

[Yanagishita] The themes are wabi-sabi and immutable current trends. I decided that I liked pottery from the Momoyama period, and I expanded on that to broaden my horizons. The original parts have remained unchanged. Immutable current trends are a way of thinking that harmonizes the "current trends" that change with the times and circumstances, and the "immutable currents" that remain unchanged.

[Nishimura] So you consider Momoyama to be your ideal. To begin with, it is a difficult question as to whether improvement is a good thing in pottery. It may be up to each individual to consciously grasp how technical growth affects the work. I feel that if you get too caught up in the word "improvement," you may lose sight of the important parts.

[Yanagishita] I think it's natural to have the technical skills, so I don't think I have to be conscious of it. It's not about technique, but about doing it for a long time, so what you see changes, so I think you can see more and get closer to the essence. Just like the word "futekiryuko" says, you have to carry it out yourself. This is where I focus my efforts.

[Nishimura] Is that something that is common to all your works? Rather than changing your way of thinking for each work, I feel that your fundamental attitude and philosophy as an artist are common to all your works. On the other hand, even if the size and shape of your works are different, I think that it is precisely because your fundamental way of thinking does not change that you are able to create a sense of unity in your style.

[Yanagishita] Yes, I think so.

[Nishimura] This Ima-yaki black tea bowl changes its appearance when it gets wet. I like that about it. The way it changes its appearance depending on the moisture and light it receives is the true charm of pottery. It's interesting to see how it takes on new expressions depending on the person who uses it and the environment.

[Yanagishita] Yes, it does change. I think Ima-yaki is Chojiro. It is basically made using natural materials, so there is a delicate temperature adjustment, and some parts are painted with a brush, so it will not be the same.

[Nishimura] So you use a brush. I think applying glaze with a brush is a very delicate task. It must be quite difficult to decide which areas to apply the glaze to and how thickly, and to proceed while imagining how it will look after it is fired. I think that this is where the individuality of each artist is strongly expressed.

[Yanagishita] It is said that Chojiro used a brush. For both red and black. This is due to the quality of the Koetsu glaze, but I believe that the shape of Koetsu is timeless, so when I try to use the same Koetsu techniques, I deliberately change the way I make it, starting from the tatara. I used wire to make it into a plate, and the marks remain. Removing the surface makes you conscious of it, but using the tatara makes it difficult to concentrate on it at all. I start making it and then think about which side should be the front.

[Nishimura] Does it change over time? I've heard that the luster and texture of pottery change with continued use, and that there is a certain pleasure in "nurturing" it, but I'm interested in how you, as an artist, perceive this. It's fascinating that the presence of a piece of work increases over time as it is used by people.

[Yanagishita] They say they use them for 20 or 30 years. Many of my customers are tea enthusiasts, so I especially like tea bowls. Many of them use them hard every day to develop their own style of tea, rather than for tea ceremony.

[Nishimura] It's like you're a denim fanatic. A tea bowl would be happier if it was used every day, rather than once every three months. It must be a great joy for the owner to be able to see up close how the bowl itself changes the more it is used. You can experience the same sensation with pottery as your favorite clothes become more comfortable.

[Yanagishita] If the storage conditions are not good, mold may grow on these items. When putting them away, they need to be dried out.

[Nishimura] It seems so. My tea teacher also dried tea bowls in the sun. If you store them while they are still damp, mold will inevitably grow, probably due to the nature of the clay. Because tea bowls are so important, you can use them for a longer period of time in beautiful condition by taking the time to take care of them.

[Yanagishita] You're right. If you are going to put it away, you need to remove any dirt and dry it completely.

[Nishimura] It's good to use it every day. It's more practical than decorative. What about people overseas? Some people use it in the traditional Japanese way, while many people may prefer to display it as interior decoration or an object. I'm really interested in how ceramics are perceived overseas.

[Yanagishita] I think there is a tendency for tea to be used for decoration more than in Japan. In other countries, there is a culture of Chinese tea rather than Sencha. You could say that Chinese tea is popular now.

[Nishimura] I see. As Chinese tea culture spreads, it may be that tea bowls are being used in ways different from Japanese tea bowls, and the demand for them is increasing. It's interesting to see how different countries and regions think about tea.

[Yanagishita] In China, sake cups are used for tea, not for sake. We drink green tea from these. This size is just right. Given the size of the teapot, sake cups are preferred.

[Nishimura] First of all, why do we need such a small vessel? In Japan, we have a strong image of sake cups being used for drinking alcohol, so I found it a bit strange. Is the amount poured at one time and the way of tasting Chinese tea different from that of Japanese tea?

[Yanagishita] This is probably because tea leaves are expensive. People who drink high-quality Chinese tea tend to use smaller teapots.

[Nishimura] Speaking of which, I recently listened to the rakugo story "Shimatsu no Utsui" (The Secret of Disposal), and I remembered that there was a scene where the character dipped his chopsticks into a sake cup and licked them. This is the humor of a frugal person. It was the first time I'd seen a miniature version of a peeled chestnut. It seems that people have been coming up with creative ways to use small vessels, including little gestures and props like this, since ancient times.

[Yanagishita] This size of sake cup is not easy to make just because it is small; it actually takes a lot of work. It's difficult.

[Nishimura] I see. I certainly understand that small shapes are more difficult. I think the right size is an interesting question. You came from Kuwasawa Design School and have been leading the Japanese design world since the 1960s. I feel that this background has influenced your current ceramic art. How is it actually connected?

[Yanagishita] I entered Kuwasawa Design School because I wanted to make things.

[Nishimura] Is it two-dimensional or three-dimensional? When you think of Kuwasawa, you may think of fashion and graphics, but three-dimensional design is also an important pillar. Do you use the knowledge and sensibility you gained there in your pottery?

[Yanagishita] It's three-dimensional. I joined because I wanted to do architecture. I've worked at an architecture firm before, but architecture is something you can't complete by yourself. But ceramics is something you can complete by yourself. Architecture starts with finding a client. You need to work with the customer. And you tend to create better things if you think about it.

[Nishimura] How many years did you work at an architectural firm? After gaining experience in that field, you decided to move into the world of ceramics. During that time, I imagine you acquired a design perspective and a structural way of thinking.

[Yanagishita] Six years. After that, I came to Shigaraki and started making pottery while working at a factory. I met a man who became my master, Sugimoto Sadamitsu, and he taught me. I started out in Iga-Shigaraki, but I started thinking about making Japanese tea bowls. It seems that Sugimoto Sensei also learned a lot from Tachibana Daiki Roshi (Daitokuji). I started to look only at Chojiro and Koetsu. I also originally wanted to make Iga-Shigaraki Momoyama pottery. There is a theme for each piece, and one of the themes is strength.

[Nishimura] What direction are you thinking about going forward? How will you evolve? I'm excited to see how your experience and knowledge gained over the years as a potter will be reflected in your work. It seems that you are always searching for new ideas and expressions while still respecting the traditions and techniques of the past.

[Yanagishita] I've come to see things differently as an extension of that, and I like to innovate, so I'm a professional and I want to be a ceramicist. That means creating myself as a ceramicist. When you think about things in a ceramicist's way, even the materials come from everyday life. I've been thinking about ceramics for a long time. In the meantime, ideas come to mind of what I'd like to try next.

[Nishimura] I understand. Thank you for taking the time to speak with us today and for sharing your thoughts with us.